Deca and Tren

[Abombs]

Some people have said that it's not good to stack together, I can't figure out why, except for maybe boner problems. Can anyone explain?

BTW they were claiming problems with proG related side effects. But I didn't think tren had anything to do with that????

[superman1975]

progesterone gyno problems the prolactin build up may be to much for most to handle without serious sides

[yardrock]

Bro I use EQ and Tren with no problem
600mg EQ and 1000mg Tren a week
I know that sounds like a very high dosage for Tren, but with some Halotestin I look BAAD@!

[rAJJIN]

well, rite now im on sus deca tren an slin. Just started few days ago. Lookin forward to this one,, all pharmacy grade high quality
shit, except the Fina of course. most often i run mex goods
so im gonna see if human grade is worth the extra $$
Yardrock thats a perfect dose on the Tren, same as me appx 150mg a day. By far my Favorite drug. Couldn imagine runnin it
with Halo I bet your hard as a rock on that combo your on.
hell now all you need is some Methltest and Chequedrops :)

[Ronzoid12]

hey guys, using Tren and Deca in the same cycle is a no no. Both deca and tren are know to cause progesterone if too much is taken. Progesterone is just like gyno except for one thing, IT CANNOT BE STOPPED OR REVERSED. Since most experienced steroid users use between 400-600mg deca a week that mixed with 75-150mg fina eod makes the risk of getting progesterone very high. This is why you should not mix both deca and fina in the same cycle and that is also why you should never take more than 600mg deca per week. I hope this cleared things up for you guys. O yea if you believe you may be seeing signs of progesterone winni is you only hope!!!
good luck and stay strong.

Ronzoid

[Bigbadasian]

|--[\\\\]>--------- I have always been told they compete for the same receptor sites.

[rAJJIN]

theoretiaclly that all sounds good, but in reality
I disagree. I always hear the same thing about receptor sites
getting flooded aas competeing for the same sites ?? anyone have any medical facts on this or solid info? because i think its exactly that, hear say. Now the progestorone makes some sence
and Ronmzoids sounds like he knows what hes talkin about.
hell it doesnt matter what you do in life though theres always risks involved, im gonna take my chances. if i start growing breasts instead of pecks i will be very very surprised.
in 3 days im alraedy up 4lbs and strength is unbeleivable,
it has to be the tren as the others havent had enough time to do
much yet, maybe the sus (very littl)
besides as quikly as Ta is out of the system, i feel it could be
dropped and controlled at anytime. People just need to know
there body, itll give plenty of warning signs if something not rite.
Romzoid i appreciate your help though as now i will deffinatley
be a bit more cautious.

[bigmac]

I was using deca(400mg ew),tren(75mged),and anadrol(50mg ed)at the same time for an eight week cycle.After two weeks,began getting burning senstion in nips.I took 3-4 grams of VITEX ed and sensations went away and never developed gyno,which I should have by reading posts saying deca and tren are a no-no.I guess its just different strokes for different folks.

[Pittbull™]

Tren and Deca is a big no no!
Go Tren and EQ bro.
Look into using winny to help counter the prog sides of tren!
Go and do a search on the subject at www.gotfina.com they have a few very indepth research articles on the matter.
Peace

[rAJJIN]

Originally posted by Pittbull™
Tren and Deca is a big no no!
Go Tren and EQ bro.
Look into using winny to help counter the prog sides of tren!
Go and do a search on the subject at www.gotfina.com they have a few very indepth research articles on the matter.
Peace

Could you elaborate on that pitbull, do you have some
personell experiences or scientific proof?
something more than "its a big no no? or he said she said stories

Ive personally ran tren for weeks upon weeks at 100mg+ ed
and the only side effects i had was GREAT strength gains and
made me hard as nails, sure as hell didnt get soft titties or
burning nips.. any of that. Explain to me please details and Facts
on Deca and tren = bad combination. Also winny is weak
i personally have no use for it. Thanks,
rajjin

[rAJJIN]

ok maybe im being stubborn, i see your point i guess?
Maybe i need to know more on progesterone. Honestly though
ive mixed dman near everything under the sun it seems and never had a problem with gyno. Sure my balls have shrunk lol
but never any fatty or Gyno probs. I am no chemist or scientist
so maybe thats why im not understanding. Or maybe ive just been lucky? So let me see here,,,, I can run deca at high doses
or i can run tren at high doses but if you mix the 2 then Poof!
your all the sudden in a bra? Come on, now lol:)

[Pittbull™]

Ok, both Tren and deca convert to prog not estrogen so the usual anti e's won't do shit for gyno etc. The winny helps to stop alot of this problem ie.prog induced gyno etc, eq will not convert to prog (or est in any great amount) so is a better choice to run with tren.
I think IMO you have been very lucky not to see any problems with running Tren and Deca as a lot of people do get them.
If you go and do a search on the subject on gotfina.com you'll find a shit load of well explained and detailed "scientific" and "chemical" data proving my point.
But I'm not going to search it for you, I don't have the time or inclination.

[rAJJIN]

yea i uderstand thats what your saying!
what im saying is were is the facts jack. www.gotfina.com is just
another message board full of OPINIONS. Show me proof were
Tren converts to prog and maybe ill understand along with all OUR
members here at rm that are readin. If tren does convert obviuosly its not a problem for me, same for deca. i FEEL YOU CANT EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE MAYBE YOU DONT HAVE A TOTALL UNDERSTANDING EITHER! If you do please elaborate.
Dont give that you dont have the time BS if you understand
and know some facts then share them, How hard is that
why would you need top search it up if you already know??

you say Im lucky and a lot of people have problems well my Question is Who???? a lot you say who maybe they can come give some advice since they will be talking from experience
gimme a link name, email or soomething to all these people
with Prog gyno from Deca and tren Or even one or the other.
I say its simply here say. i bet you have never personally known
1 person with this problem.

"dont have the time or inclination" Grrrr you have some neck
all the time i spend trying to help this F-kin board!

[Pittbull™]

Look I don't have all the answers I never fuckin said I did, I do a lot of reading and I have given you a site that if you want to know more about it go and fuckin look, there is sound "sientific" reasons not "opinions" regarding the use of Tren and Deca and why it's not a good idea. Go and read it. As far as "not personally knowing anyone with that problem" actually I do so don't come along and and start arguing with every little thing I post! As a lot of others here I give my opinion and try to give the best answers I know, if it's not god enough for you TOUGH SHIT!
Maybe you should just take on board that people will have differing opinions to you and not go out of your way to be so fuckin childish about it.
Grow up!

[Pittbull™]

jacked from another board...
heres the arguement from another board...

Winny will prevent or slow gyno from the binding of nandrolone to the PR.

The differential effects of stanozolol on human skin and synovial fibroblasts in vitro: DNA synthesis and receptor binding.

Ellis AJ, Cawston TE, Mackie EJ.

Rheumatology Research Unit, Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK.

The anabolic steroid stanozolol stimulates the production of prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and the matrix metalloproteinases collagenase and stromelysin in human skin fibroblasts but not in rheumatoid synovial fibroblasts. The basis for these differential responses was investigated at the levels of DNA synthesis and steroid receptor binding. Stanozolol inhibited fibroblast growth factor (FGF)-stimulated DNA synthesis in both the skin and synovial fibroblasts, showing that both cell types were capable of responding to the compound. Competitive binding assays indicated that stanozolol bound specifically to both the skin and synovial fibroblasts. Binding of stanozolol to both cell types could be partially displaced by progesterone, indicating that stanozolol binds to the progesterone receptor. Immunocytochemical studies confirmed the presence of progesterone receptors on skin and synovial fibroblasts. However, progesterone failed to elicit any response with respect to collagenase production in either cell type. Nortestosterone, dexamethasone and 17 beta-oestradiol had no effect on binding of stanozolol to either cell type. These results indicate that the inhibition of DNA synthesis by stanozolol is elicited through the progesterone receptor. The effects of stanozolol on collagenase and PGE2 production are mediated by a different receptor, present on skin but not synovial fibroblasts, and as yet unidentified.

Hope it's useful in some way

Peace

[rAJJIN]

thanks bro, Im gonna let the Childish and grow up remarks ride
as i was outa line on some remarks also. I dont mind differant
opinions at all, thats how we learn man. if we all sat around here
pattin eachother on the ass and agreeing on everything (like bbx)
we wouldnt learn much. I understand what your sayin, and im sure your probly rite would just wanted some more info thats all.

so what i understand from the above is, winny is a lot like
an anti-e only for progesterone. it binds to the sight correct
should i get some just to have on hand in case or is there any other drugs to prevent it like Vitex i think someone mentioned.
also since im using Test how would one know the diferance in
e-related gyno and g-related gyno? Im tellin you though ive had these damn nolva in my drawer for 2 years and never took a 1
(always told it will hinder your gains) but better safe than sorry
huh. Maybe i should just run my sus and deca then use the
tren ww/ some prop and eq at the end. thnks
Rajjin

[Pittbull™]

Sounds like a good idea bro, is's probally damn imposiable to tell the difference between the two, but sounds like your not prone to gyno anyways! I'm not to sure on this but I thing the morning afrer pill is good at stoping progesterone, RU something (don't quote me on that though...lol)
Winny is IMO worthwhile to have on hand during a Tren or even a high dose Deca cycle (if you're prone to proG induced gyno) and besides no one wants the worst case senario and start squirting milk out ya nipps lmao
All's well that ends well
Pitty

[rAJJIN]

Maybe proG is not such a problem? check this out...
Ive heard both sides now and this is the best info ive found so far,, Im going to continue to run my Deca an Tren Together
untill Im convinced otherwise.
From another board.....

Progestins & Gyno AT 02-13-2003 02:24 PM
Before you decide that blocking progesterone is the solution to gyno, consider a few things. There is not one case of progesterone induced gyno in the medical literature EXCEPT in those cases where strong synthetic progestins, like medroxyprogesterone, were administered. In these cases the gyno is due to suppression of LH and testosterone by the progestin, NOT by a direct effect on breast tissue. On a cycle your LH is already suppressed by the AAS anyway.

Breasts have two components: alveoli and ducts. The alveoli are what secrete milk; they drain into ducts. Gynecomastia is the result of ductal hyperplasia, not alveolar hyperplasia. Estrogen stimulates the ductal tissue, while progesterone stimulates the alveoli. Alveolar hyperplasia does not contribute to gyno. If you want to read more on breast development, I suggest visiting this site:

http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm

In various tissues throughout the body, including cultured neoplastic breast tissue, progestins downregulate the estrogen receptor (1). Progesterone receptor blockers like RU-486 upregulate the estrogen receptor (1). This is consistent with the fact that RU-486 CAUSES gyno in patients in whom it is used to treat Cushing's disease and meningiomas (2).

Progestins are also anti-estrogenic in that they induce the enzyme 17-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, which catalyzes the oxidation of estradiol to the less potent estrone. Progestins also induce estrogen sulfotransferase, the enzyme which catalyzes the sulfation and inactivation of estrogens.

So do progestins contribute to gyno, and if yes, how so? If you visit the link above you will see that progestins increase IGF-1 levels. As that article indicated, IGF-1 is essential to the the development of mammary tissue. This is also how it is believed that progestins in HRT or oral contraceptives contribute to breast cancer: by increasing IGF-1 levels. But as bodybuilders we are always trying to maximize IGF-1. Hence the futility of trying to lower IGF-1 by blocking progestins. The other anabolics we use will elevate (hopefully) IGF-1, while blocking the progesterone receptor will only increase the levels and activity of estrogen by the mechanisms outlined above.

Two drugs have shown the greatest efficacy in treating gyno: Nolvadex, and Raloxifene, another SERM. Nolvadex has the longest track record, but a recent trial with Raloxifene showed it to be superior to Nolvadex. With these drugs you attack the problem at its source: the estrogen receptor. You get the added benefit of lowering IGF-1. Not a good thing for making gains, but important for treating gyno.

[Pittbull™]

Awsome post bro, well now I've seen both sides too. To be truthfull I've never had any ichy nip problems either and don't run a anti-e during a cycle (usually) but always have it on hand just in case. having said that I wouldn't mind trying ferma (herd great things) next time a do a high androgen cycle.
Keep the great info coming you big mofo....lol
Pittbull