For all bros with heart defects/problems, a question

tyhigs · #1 (**permalink**) 10-04-2002, 05:43 AM

I have a congenital heart condition called mitral valve prolapse (mvp). It is supposed to be benign in the majority of cases (they say 20% of all american women have this), but it is known to enlarge the heart in extreme cases.

My question is, for those guys how have heart defects AND have used AAS, do you think that AAS can/has made your condition worse or can enlarge the heart. Please mention your typical dosages on AAS too. So far Ive only done short cycles of chinaman susp/prop.

For my next cycle, in around two weeks, I plan on a 3gram frontload and then 1gram a week for another 7 weeks.

Testosterone Cypionate.
week 1 -
day 1 - 1 gram, day 3 - 1 gram, day5 - 1 gram
weeks 2 - 8
1000/mgs per week

BIGKIWI · #2 (**permalink**) 10-04-2002, 07:21 PM

Taking steroids over extended periods will deffinately enlarge your heart. I think in some ways it can't be a truely bad thing as if I still had the same size heart i had when 150pd lighter I think it would be struggling badly right now. They way I think of it is it doesn't matter what size your heart is as long as you keep it healthy by doing cardios, eating well etc all will be sweet

40andpumpin · #3 (**permalink**) 10-04-2002, 08:21 PM

Well, I have an enlarged heart and do gear. I'm conservative but I'm 42 here soon and I'd probably conservative anyway. A few doc's told me that most atheletes hearts are larger than normal in order to deal with the excess workload. I just try use my head and keep it simple and don't go overboard. I'm not advocating anything for you or suggesting what's best for you just what I do. Best of luck with it. Oh yea, some supp's like CoQ10, Magnesium and l-carnitine are all good for the heart muscle. hth

tyhigs · #4 (**permalink**) 10-05-2002, 05:08 AM

40andpumpin, im glad you decided to use your first post to respond to me. I have heard about the athlete issue. This guy on another board insists that he has read something about steroids causing heart failure while he was in the library at school, but of course he doesnt have any references. Anyway, I believe that Lee Priest recovered from an enlarged left ventricle and I know they use beta blockers to help the heart return to normal size.

stackdizzy · #5 (**permalink**) 10-05-2002, 08:39 PM

I have an irregular heart-beat have ever since I was a kid. Though I see a doc every 6 months just to see if everything is cool. He says probabls when I am 60 he will have to scope it. He knows I do juice and says that stimulents(coke,crank) will have a much worse effect than juice. I know this is not like your condition but I thought it might help

40andpumpin · #6 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tyhigs
40andpumpin, im glad you decided to use your first post to respond to me. I have heard about the athlete issue. This guy on another board insists that he has read something about steroids causing heart failure while he was in the library at school, but of course he doesnt have any references. Anyway, I believe that Lee Priest recovered from an enlarged left ventricle and I know they use beta blockers to help the heart return to normal size.

A couple of things bro... First, I'm always with my eyes and ears open for related information and I have never heard of steroids directly causing heart "failure." On the other hand, I do believe that if they are done recklessly, they can indirectly cause a multitude of heart ailments.

Beta blockers block the beta-2 adrenergic receptors which prevent your heart from responding to stressful situations as it normally would. They make your heart less efficient and can really give your heart a break and help it, as you've stated, get better from overwork. That's one of the reasons why they're helpful for hypertensives. But I am NOT a fan of beta blockers. I was on them for a while and they have too many negatives associated with them. Keep in mind that an enlarged heart is almost always an inefficient heart. This inefficiency is what makes an enlarged heart a problem, NOT the fact that it's enlarged. So what you need to do is help it pump as effectively as possible. If it's doing this, the fact that it's enlarged will no longer be a problem.

Coenzyme Q10 is VERY helpful in this area. Trust me on this one. Get yourself on a good CoQ10, a full spectrum E (alpha, beta, delta and gamma tocopherols and tocotrienols), a good magnesium like glycinate, l-carnitine and Hawthorne extract. I gaurantee this will make your heart strong, efficient and as healthy as it can possibly be. Don't underestimate these supplements to help your heart bro. BTW, for the E and CoQ10 I highly recommend www.lef.org. hth

40andpumpin · #7 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stackdizzy
I have an irregular heart-beat have ever since I was a kid. Though I see a doc every 6 months just to see if everything is cool. He says probabls when I am 60 he will have to scope it. He knows I do juice and says that stimulents(coke,crank) will have a much worse effect than juice. I know this is not like your condition but I thought it might help

Bro you should avoid stimulants like the plague and add a good Magnesium to your supplement regimen. CoQ10 will also help you tremendously. This is not BS. hth

tyhigs · #8 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 04:02 AM

40, I understand now. Im also reviewing some old posts on heart conditions on elite, and I also saw your handle there. I am taking toprol ed (or at least i should be, sometimes i dont). It is interesting to note that I went to the website, and congestive heart failure is a side effect of this drug (toprol). how ironic is that? Im thinking that it would be a mistake to take this right before an intense working when my heart needs to be free to work as hard as it needs to. It would be better to take it directly after the event. Have you ever thought of this? My cardiologist told me when he first gave it to me, that it would make me feel more tired when im running (at that time i was doing 6 miles a day)

40andpumpin · #9 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tyhigs
... and congestive heart failure is a side effect of this drug (toprol). how ironic is that? Im thinking that it would be a mistake to take this right before an intense working when my heart needs to be free to work as hard as it needs to. It would be better to take it directly after the event. Have you ever thought of this? My cardiologist told me when he first gave it to me, that it would make me feel more tired when im running (at that time i was doing 6 miles a day)

What beta blockers do to the heart make it less efficient and it therefore doesn't surprise me that one of the sides can be CHF. CHF is basically a heart that is not pumping effectively (enough).

I don't believe the time of day you take it really matters because most of those med's are designed to ensure consistent blood levels throughout the day. There may be a peak but I'll bet it is minimal. Either way I doubt that it's immediately after you take it. It may be worth finding this out if you're interesed in working out when the levels are lowest. But this may not be smart if the doc is afraid of putting too much strain on your heart.

Again, the reason you'd feel more tired is because the med is preventing your heart from keeping up with the work-load.

I obviously don't know what's really going on with your heart but I do know the aforementioned supp's are excellent. Hawthorne is especially good for heart valves, l-carnitine for strengthening the heart muscle, magnesium for proper electrical activity and regularity of the beating and finally CoQ10 for effectiveness of the pumping it has to do. Do some research on these.

All the best to you bro.

tyhigs · #10 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 07:14 PM

40, im definitely gonna purchase some l-carnitine and coQ10. I want to burn some extra fat anyways. My resting heart rate is 66. ha, I tried to get my mom to take my blood pressure lastnight, (shes a nurse) but she couldnt find that little ballon to inflate the thing with. oh well.
I didnt know it makes it LESS effecient. I thought that was a typo the first time u wrote that. All that is says on the toprol website is that it doesnt allow your heart to respond to chemicals like epinephrine (or at least not as much as it normally would). Now im kinda worried about LESS efficiency. I could probably get away with not taking it if I ran 6 miles everyday again (to get my resting heart rate real low), but that is really hard on my legs, and all that cortisone isnt conductive to muscle growth/maintainence.

40andpumpin · #11 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tyhigs
...I didnt know it makes it LESS effecient. I thought that was a typo the first time u wrote that. All that is says on the toprol website is that it doesnt allow your heart to respond to chemicals like epinephrine (or at least not as much as it normally would). Now im kinda worried about LESS efficiency. I could probably get away with not taking it if I ran 6 miles everyday again (to get my resting heart rate real low), but that is really hard on my legs, and all that cortisone isnt conductive to muscle growth/maintainence.

Verify this with your doc bro. Don't be worried about it because it's not always a bad thing, it just depends on your situation. I would also avoid stimulants if I were you, even caffeine.

tyhigs · #12 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 07:54 PM

what about T3? I dont mess with coffee, i dont even drink soda, and ditto for clen. ive read some bad reports about what that can do for the heart, and im trying to keep the alcohol very low.

40andpumpin · #13 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 08:24 PM

I honestly don't know about T3, however, I wouldn't mess with anything at all that effects my heart rate. Are you concerned about weight? Alcohol is too hard on my body and I avoid it for that reason, but that's just me. Come to think of it, alcohol definitely increases my heart rate, for what it's worth.

tyhigs · #14 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 03:06 AM

well I'd like to strip all the fat off after I bulk up some more. Im thinking maybe 12 weeks of strict dieting starting in march. I did use some of the thyroid supplement in 99 (from gnc, thyrolean??), and it did increase my heart rate.