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How much is enough!?!?
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Old 05-18-2002, 03:09 PM
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Lightbulb How much is enough!?!?

Ok the age-old question is, how much gear is enough?

Please bear with me as I share my knowledge with those that are unsure of just how much gear to shove under the old dermal layers.

I have been bodybuilding for 17 years now; I started using gear (juice, roidz etc.) after 10yrs of natural training. This decision was made with careful consideration and a lot of knowledge of the endocrine system (hormone functions). I read everything, journals, steroid guides, MIMS, and even VET manuals (good source).

Now most people I have known will take the approach of If a little is good ...then a lot is better.... WRONG...PLEASE HEAR ME OUT: help:

"If 1 aspirin cures a headache ...then 100 will cure your life!" follow.

Each person is different TO A DEGREE, but the margin is not as different as these so called genetic freaks are claiming, response to steroids can and will affect everyone. Yes you to. I started out at 89kg (198lbs), after 6 weeks I had pumped up to 99kg(220lbs) 14% Body fat. I had not gained any fat but actually dropped fat in the exchange gained more muscle (and a big head).
This was my FIRST course.

By the second course I was 106kg(236lbs) at 12% fat

By the 3rd course of gear I was a massive 116kg(258lbs) at 10%

All this in 1-year NO BULLSH%T

People would ask me how much gear I took to get that big, now I will not bullshit people and say "Ohh me I’m natural" FU$*OFF, The truth is better than compromising your integrity. So I would tell them! They would look at me and say” No way that’s all?" here it is:

Weekly dosage (7 days)

1 x Sustanon 250 ampoule
2ml x Dynabol (nandralone decanate)

That’s it.... serious!! I am not genetically gifted and I respond no better than the next guy. Why did I get such good results?
Simple, less is more...let me say that again LESS IS MORE!!
My friends were pumping up to 50mls of assorted juice per week and were lucky to gain 10kg a year and that was 60% fat too.

Here’s my theory (based on endocrine knowledge)

Your body contains areas called receptors; this is where the steroids attach themselves to (think of them like a key-hole) when you inject anabolic steroids they must attach them selves to the receptors in order to function correctly (other words help you grow). Now every person has these receptors all through their body (yes woman too).

Not all receptors are the same; just like a Chevy Ignition Key wont start a Toyota (unless its stolen, LOL). Some will allow certain Androgens (male hormones) to fit in others wont!...follow me? When you take too much steroids you grow breasts (or bitchies, Gyncomastia) this is because the steroids cannot find anymore receptors to attach too (no more keyholes for the steroids to notch into) Your body then cleverly converts the steroids into a new hormone Estrogen (Female hormone) and the only keyhole in a MALES body is located generally in the breast gland...Voila TITTY BOY...

If you've read this far then your interested enough to know what goes on in the body beyond the injection site. Now all steroids are a derivative of TESTOSTERONE...yes that is the truth! Each one is altered slightly in its shape to emphasize a certain aspect (On a molecular level). Thus certain drugs will be more effective in particular uses (lets not forget they were originally made for sick people. Oh and German athletes).

Getting more to the point and I have tried not too getting technical at all.
The more you take the less your body will want to respond
Why? Simple, fill a bucket with water and it's fine. If you keep filling it after its full all you do is spill the water over the sides, and when it comes to the cost of gear"thats some expensive spillage!"
Yeah I know some people are saying,”Bullshit man, I read Kovacs cycle and he takes a huge amount per week!" my reply to the skeptic is simple "Growth hormone is a totally different ballpark"
And lets face it if your like me you have to admit Arnolds’ body is still much more achievable than kovacs (and more attractive...unless your a ALIEN fan....think about that one!)

The less you take to begin with the better the results. Do you remember when you took your first cycle? Remember how you grew so rapidly? Why don’t you get the same results after your second and third course?

ANSWER: the bucket is full (receptors are shutdown, blocked.)

All the water in the world wont empty a full bucket!

My experience tells me that you need to allow the body enough time to empty the so-called hormonal bucket before refilling it. To achieve this one must. MUST fill and empty the receptors to allow room for more steroids to attach themselves. In the words of Arnold "I took steroids yes, but no where near the amount they take today” Sixty minutes interview. One of my good freinds trained and hung out with Arnie in the 70's and can vouch first hand about this comments validity.

Points to remember:

Cycle your gear 6-10 weeks ON is enough

Your time off is as important too (this empties the hormonal bucket)

Never increase your dosage to compensate for lack of gains, check to make sure your training HARD and eating well FIRST. Remember gear doesn’t make muscle grow unless you’re training at the most intense level (remember what Arnie said in PUMPING IRON” the 7th and 8th rep is what makes it grow, you must be wiling to go beyond the pain"). If you have been on gear for a few years and feel its not increasing your gains at all, taper the dose down over a month or more until your using nothing then take a month or two (preferably 3) off the gear COMPLETELY< TO let the body empty all the receptors. Then start back on smaller doses to allow the body to grow again.

Limit your cycles to 3 at most 4 per year.

Listen to your body; it takes 5-6weeks to get any affect from a steroid (Noticeable that is)


To finish up I would like to say that using steroids without any respect for your body, or total disregard for ones health is foolishness. The word is BODY BUILDING not bodydestroying.

Take care of what you were blessed with and remember it’s all you really own!

I hope this has helped some you beginners gain a simple insight into the mysterious world of Anabolic consumption. My goal was not to impress anyone with what I know but to share my experience and perhaps impress upon them the fact that anabolic steroids in huge dosages are no more effective than tits on a bull.

Take care, Train hard and sleep sound

Gymrat

Recommended reading:

World Anabolic review
MIMS (doctors edition)
Bill Philips supplement review
Massive muscle in 10 weeks
HIT – High Intensity training methods


/t\
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2002, 06:16 PM
willk's Avatar
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that is all very true for some. the thing is is that 1 asprin doesnt cure a headache for everyone. its like the local crackhead, he can do crack all day, if you and i did that (assuming you dont ever do crack) we would die of heart failure before the days end.

the body has a way of getting used to the roids, and so you need more and more. there is now way any pro has ever been on stage after cycles of 1 sustanon, and 1 deca amp a week. that ONLY works on newbies, and people who take alot of time off during the year.

the best part is, YOU decide what YOU take. if you can grow of of 2 ml a week. thats completely wonderful, and rally cheap. i am happy for you.

the simple fact of the matter is though, most people want to make huge gains on a cycle, not just gains. i could not grow very well on those type dosages even as a beginner, but i know people who do. but i must add, they usually gain like 15 pounds, but no one can tell. they get stronger, hold a little water, but look exactly the same. they just didnt do enough to really grow. ever seen this?

anyway. for a newbie, your right, it doesnt take much..... but most people on these forums are far from newbies.
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Old 05-18-2002, 06:28 PM
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you brought up some good points but I have to agree with willk. See myself I used to make killer gains of 4 dbol a day and 1 sust a week...well those days have long gone...unless I'm stacking a couple grams of inject's with an oral ...dbol or A50 I won't go anywhere....see the problem is once you get so big your body doesn't want to be that size, you have to take a certain amount of gear just to maintain your size never mind grow...thats why you have guys taking grams and grams a week...for example here's my next cycle....I think I can squeeze 20lbs out of it.

wk 1-4
150mgs/d A50

wk 4-8
100mgs dbol/day

wk8-12
75mgs tren/day

All 12 weeks
2grams of enanthate
1200mgs EQ
50mgs winny/day


Now 5 years ago when I started I would have looked at that and thought this guy is fucking nuts...but that was about 100lbs of muscle mass ago...so I need big doses for continued progress.
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Old 05-19-2002, 05:22 AM
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Posts: 35
Yeah I agree with what you guys are saying too, All dosages need to be increased eventually. But lets face the fact there is a limit to how much you can take, If you increased your dosage continually then you would be on $1,000s of dollars of gear a week. Even after years of juicing your own common sense kicks in and says thats the limit no more.

My last course was:

Per week
2ml Sustanon
5ml Deca
8ml Stanozolol
4 Dbols tbs per day

now I know that is not a huge dosage compared to the average bodybuilder consumpption, but it is still a increase compared to my original dosages. But that was 7yrs ago!

We set the dosage standards according to our own personal and individual desires. But the problem I have is when I see 17yr old guys telling me their going on the juice with little or no previous training and consuming quantities that would make a bull sweat.

I dont recomend that one should continually barrage their endocrine system with steroids in the simple attempt to just look good. If you do it you should at least show resppect for the substance that is altering your appearance.

For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.

I have seen long term bodybuilders (pro's and am's) who for one reason or another have discontinued steroid use and faded away to nothing more than the average guy (some cases less).
Yes I am a steroid user! and I love being on the gear as well. I also have a healthy respect for the marvelous Endocrine system that god has endowed us with. But my experiance tells me time and time again that too many young guys are using the gear as their entire means of growth. When you come off the gear who are you? Depressed? unconfident? withdrawn? some of the guys I meet answer yes (if not too me they admit it too themselves).

I guess to get to the point, and too state my original intention of posting the message is "hey stop listen to your body Find out HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH, Dont take excess just because some nuckle dragging mouth breather in the gym said too. ",yes we all must eventually increase our dosages to compensate for the bodys adaption process. But what is our motive? Physical truth?! or Insecurity based?

I know this may seem old hat to you veterans. but too the young upcoming bodybuilder this could provide a solid foundation of growth and maturity, both physically as well as charateristically.

Please I am not trying to put anyone down through my comments but to raise the awareness of sensible steroid use.

keep it up, train hard, and feel good.

Gymratz
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Old 05-19-2002, 06:02 PM
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Bros,

I'd just like to say, this is the main reason I belong to this board. This is a great conversation and we need more like this.

I am not a verteran nor do I consider myself a newbie. But I do like to research and learn about gear before I decide to include it in my training and the single biggest issue I ever have is the dosage (i.e. how much, how often, etc...)

I believe it is always going to be personal and unique for each of us, but knowing what the Veterans do and how they got to where they are is a great help to us.

Thanks, /;
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:15 AM
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I will endevour to post more links to research sites, especially for those that wish to delve slightly deeper into the issue of Anabolic's and other such relative sujects.

great to hear from you Bunyip!
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Old 05-20-2002, 05:06 AM
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what a bunch of great post verry nice
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for sake of info and comparison
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Old 05-20-2002, 09:49 PM
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for sake of info and comparison

here are my first and last runs

i sus rediject and 2 sten a week
7.5mg halo ed for last 4 weeks
25mf dbol mon thru fri , first 4 weeks
1 clomid ed for 20 days after last shot
this is my first run, gained 30lb, but alot was fat cuz i didnt know what the fuck i was doing

heres my last one
5ml enth, 5 omna, 500mg fina, 500mg winny- per week for 10 weeks
50mg drol, 30mg dbol, last 5 weeks
if i would have saw this 3 years ago, i would have laffed and said is that a pros cyc?
lol
but
now my thinking has changed, instead of huge amts of test etc, im goin to do 4 weeks of fast androgens at moderate doses, and long acting at low doses
for example heres my next run
25mg dbol ed
100mg prop/100mg fina ed
thats all, then ill take 4 off and repeat, but i have a a meet in december so on nov1 ill start with a front load of enth at 2.5g(week 1), then drop to 200mg a day so 1400 a week for remaining 8, then hit fast shit last 4-6 weeks
everyone is different, its a game of trial and error
but as with the workouts, u need to switch your cycling up too
i personally think your body will adapt to doses, there fore platueing, so throw your self a curve every now and then

take er easy boys
frk
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:21 AM
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Posts: 206
i am proud to say rippedmass is my home,great post bro's
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Old 05-21-2002, 12:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 35
Good to see all the MuscleHeads are here!

I'm seriously considering writing software (Freeware) that will be a referance guide for all information on each steroid availble including photos and even some simple videos. It will be absolutely free and downloadble.

If you are interested or have any ideas for this software please let me know as i feel it will serve as a offline source for quick referance of gear. I will also include a free link and advertisment for RIPPEDMASS.COM if they dont mind!

Let me know what ideas are out there, as i know it has'nt been done yet and feel it would be helpfull for the community at large.

Best wishes, train hard.
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sweet
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2002, 01:31 PM
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Posts: 216
sweet

i think it should be free to us, but u could market it and sell man
make some $$$ for the next cyc
lol
awesome idea

frk
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:34 AM
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Well I can honestly say that Gymratz has a fair idea of what he is on about as ive known him for years and he went over my first course with me 4 yrs ago... I also trained for 10yrs natural before taking gear so i had a good base and training habits. My problem was eating, I did plenty of it just the wrong food. It wasnt until i took my diet seriously did i get any good growth and did i grow...

Over the years I increased my intake to increase my gains untill I reached the size I was happy with (thanks to gear, growth, diet and hard training) I then decided to give my body a well deserved rest only training to maintain size and laying of the gear for 12mths. Now I have started to train hard again I have found that i am getting great results from a small amount of gear..1ml sust 3ml stanna a week which i will increase throughout my 12 week cycle. This is working for me but as others have pointed out everyone is different and has different approaches. Thats why this forum is a great starting point for any bodybuilder. Thanks for the help gymratz but that was the first and last time you'll see the top quarter of my bear glut while holding a 21 gauge.....
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Old 05-25-2002, 06:43 AM
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Wow, the song from Barbera streisand is playing in my head "Memories......" ROLF

Good to see old thick thighs is still bang the weights! lol

Keep it up, and best of luck with your photo shoot.

PS. Have you got your VET license yet??
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