loeffler stuff

[33red]

i can get this stuff all day, it seems it is all over in my area. should i jump on it?

[xcelbeyond]

I've never used Mex gear so I can't vouch for its effectiveness. I've heard enough about it being underfilled - so make sure you take that into account for cycle.

I would definately get some 0.45 PVDF filters and new sterile vials to transfer gear. Also bake: Preheat oven to 250 F. Place gear on a cookie sheet and bake for 15 minutes. Remove and let stand for 10 minutes. Repeat this process two more times. I believe it is the process of heating and cooling that sterilizes the product.

xcelbeyond /t\

[Cyclone]

xcelbeyond is right/t\

[Bigbadasian]

|--[\\\\]>------ I am doing the same thing to my neotest and sus250. I was going to filter it, but i guess i'll bake it too now! :-)

[SickTed]

i have the 250, but am waiting to trade it. i dont want to take the chance that it could be a wasted cycle for me. i have had to many of them already

[rajizi]

Originally posted by xcelbeyond
I've never used Mex gear so I can't vouch for its effectiveness. I've heard enough about it being underfilled - so make sure you take that into account for cycle.

I would definately get some 0.45 PVDF filters and new sterile vials to transfer gear. Also bake: Preheat oven to 250 F. Place gear on a cookie sheet and bake for 15 minutes. Remove and let stand for 10 minutes. Repeat this process two more times. I believe it is the process of heating and cooling that sterilizes the product.

xcelbeyond /t\

If you want a sterile product you need to use a .22um PVDF or PTFE filter. .45um will still allow bacteria through. Also, the heating and cooling of the soultion will burn off the excess alcohol but do nothing for the sterilization of the product. It takes 122deg celsius to terminal sterilize a surface or product with bacteria contamination. Since the boiling point of BA is around 200F your just burning off the only thing that keeps your product sterile.

BR

[xcelbeyond]

Originally posted by rajizi
If you want a sterile product you need to use a .22um PVDF or PTFE filter. .45um will still allow bacteria through. Also, the heating and cooling of the soultion will burn off the excess alcohol but do nothing for the sterilization of the product. It takes 122deg celsius to terminal sterilize a surface or product with bacteria contamination. Since the boiling point of BA is around 200F your just burning off the only thing that keeps your product sterile.

I'm far from an expert on this topic. This has been a very heavy topic over at the Finaplix board when Animal was frequenting there. It was my understanding that while 0.22 will filter out more than 0.45, the harmful bacteria is removed with a 0.45. 0.22 does not technically sterilize either. I'm not well enough versed to articulate the discussion that surrounded this issue but it was pretty intense. There is gear that will be next to impossible to push through a 0.22 filter.

I don't purposely put a pin in (to vent the vial) while baking so alcohol doesn't get "baked-off."

I was told by someone more knowledgable than myself that "process of heating and cooling sterilizes the product."

You seem to understand know this topic relatively well! Can you elaborate on your statement "It takes 122deg celsius to terminal sterilize a surface or product with bacteria contamination"? Isn't 122 C = 251 F?

xcelbeyond /t\

[rajizi]

Originally posted by xcelbeyond

I'm far from an expert on this topic. This has been a very heavy topic over at the Finaplix board when Animal was frequenting there. It was my understanding that while 0.22 will filter out more than 0.45, the harmful bacteria is removed with a 0.45. 0.22 does not technically sterilize either. I'm not well enough versed to articulate the discussion that surrounded this issue but it was pretty intense. There is gear that will be next to impossible to push through a 0.22 filter.

I don't purposely put a pin in (to vent the vial) while baking so alcohol doesn't get "baked-off."

I was told by someone more knowledgable than myself that "process of heating and cooling sterilizes the product."

You seem to understand know this topic relatively well! Can you elaborate on your statement "It takes 122deg celsius to terminal sterilize a surface or product with bacteria contamination"? Isn't 122 C = 251 F?

xcelbeyond /t\

I work in the formulation development dept of a biopharma company. What we and the FDA call "Terminal Sterilization" is either sending a water or oil based product through a .22um filter or cooking it to 122.0C. Products that are filled into vials are either kept in an aseptic envioronment, or are filtered by .22um filters into a final containment vessel. Then that goes directly to the fill line for filling into vials.

As far as gear that does not pass, it can be for many reasons. Mostly that the dissolved powder in not fully dissolved, thus causing the filter to clog. To be trully dissolved fully you should easily pass through a .22um filter with a little pressure. If the test comes out of soultion or there is an incrediable bacteria load you will clog the filter. .45 is better than nothing, but it will still let some bacteria pass. And you are correct, 122=251.6degF. But this temp is used in steam sterilzation with a vent to let the steam pass to all surfaces to sterilize them. But with a liquid formulation it is risky to bake a product because there are a few formulated products that can withstand this heat without denaturing or losing molecular weight. I'm not sure at what temp the testosterone molecule is going to become denatured. You could look that up in the merck index, but it might be close to causing the molecule to become inactive...or not. Hope this helps clarify a few things.

BR

[xcelbeyond]

Originally posted by rajizi
But with a liquid formulation it is risky to bake a product because there are a few formulated products that can withstand this heat without denaturing or losing molecular weight. I'm not sure at what temp the testosterone molecule is going to become denatured. You could look that up in the merck index, but it might be close to causing the molecule to become inactive...or not. Hope this helps clarify a few things.

Thanks for the clarification bro.

It was my understanding that when testosterone or other AS binds with BA and oil, it is the temperature that the oil can withstand, not the gear.

This was another relatively heavy discussion at another board. Someone brought up the extremely low melting point of deca (i think it was deca, can't remember). It is low enough that normal storage could be a problem, but the issue about it being bound to the oil displaced that concern.

xcelbeyond /t\

[rajizi]

Your right, with the testosterone dissolved in oil it's properties change. How they change I dont' know. Someone would have to do an HPLC run to check before and after product potency. Thanks for pointing that out. The baking process has been used for a while now, so there must be some merit to it. Otherwise bro's would find their gear useless, and that hasn't been the case. Good point you made./t\

BR

[crackingvials]

i have always heated, and i grow!

[need4speed]

the 25 mg dbol tabs are good.